Sample HD MPEG-1 Clip...

[digigami]

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

Yes artifacts are there, but the h.264 clip still looks better.

Thanks, but I am asking IgorC. He's not evaluating both clips, only mine.

And I agree, the H.264 looks sharper.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by IgorC

QT7 source artefactas are nothing comparing to your MPEG-2 sample.
looks like you're nerving right now

I'm not talking about QT source. I'm talking about Sagittaire's H.264 AVC at 1250. Get a grip.

[JohnV]

Originally Posted by digigami

So the HP in Nero will still not represent the full AVC capabilities? Progressive encoding only? What about other features. Do you know?

Even I can't say yet. But it should be the same codec with practically all features, interlacing included. Btw. IIRC interlacing is Main Profile feature anyway, not HP.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

Yes artifacts are there, but the h.264 clip still looks better.
My matrices are for xvid (mpeg4 ASP)... i dont guarantee good results for mpeg2.
Time to go now
l8r.

OK - I will be investigating XviD too for MoviesForMyPod.

[CruNcher]

ok just on the matter of Hollywood and H.264 i think you remember the time when Blue-Ray said hey AVC Main Profile doesn't looks so good as our 20 Mbit Mpeg-2 Stuff

here is the official background to that matter and when Frext was introduced also it should be covered that Atemes Encoder i think as the only one in the world supports Film Grain Modeling in the Encoder/Decoder as a bonus to High Profile.

http://ftp3.itu.ch/av-arch/jvt-site/...JVT-K025r1.doc

[digigami]

Originally Posted by JohnV

Even I can't say yet. But it should be the same codec with practically all features, interlacing included. Btw. IIRC interlacing is Main Profile feature anyway, not HP.

Thanks JohnV, I am now bonafide Nero customer for NeroDigital, just waiting for key license key. Can you tell them to hurry?

[IgorC]

Talking about Ateme H.264 , yes I agree with. but are you comparing Ateme H.264 video that´s 3 times smaller than your MPEG-2 video and you´re saying that H.264 is sharper than MPEG-2. Imagine what conlcusion you will do at the same bitrate. H.264 will be much better than MPEg-2.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

ok just on the matter of Hollywood and H.264 i think you remember the time when Blue-Ray said hey AVC Main Profile doesn't looks so good as our 20 Mbit Mpeg-2 Stuff

here is the official background to that matter and when Frext was introduced also it should be covered that Atemes Encoder i think as the only one in the world supports Film Grain Modeling in the Encoder/Decoder as a bonus to High Profile.

http://ftp3.itu.ch/av-arch/jvt-site/...JVT-K025r1.doc

Thanks. I guess I am Ateme user now that I have Nero. Will refer back to this thread often - at least for the tech info.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by IgorC

H.264 will be much better than MPEg-2.

I guess you haven't been reading the thread, but we all agreed on that about 3 pages ago.

[IgorC]

I'm really happy now

[savage747]

Originally Posted by digigami

Yes, OK, now do it in real-time with capture. Most real-time encoders use 1/2 width frame for motion compensation and do exhaustive search. Also, make sure you are using MPEG standard quant matrices, because I think it is rare to find broadcast with anything else. DVD is another matter.

Well, my encoding speed was something like 64fps (Athlon64 3000+) - so this gives plenty of headroom for capturing. I didn't use a custom quantization matrix (most likely http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/cgi-bin/cvs...cvsroot=FFMpeg was used - is that standard?). In my experience those files can be played with everything that claims to be able to decode MPEG2... I couldn't find the exact spec (GOP length etc.) for DVB by a simple google query, though (they should be over at ETSI, though - but their site is a mess). I did another quick test (forcing keyframe interval to 10 - which most likely is more restrictive than needed) and the result still looks way better than what can be seen on DVB-T... so I think that much could be done to improve picture quality if the broadcasters would care.

Meh, think I'm fully off-topic now... (SD TV over DVB)

[Sagittaire]

And finally (for me) here little comparison

your best possible encoding (I imagine) at 3800 Kbps
http://digigami.in-long-beach-ca.com...D_720p.010.m1v

and my best possible encoding at 3800 Kbps for libavcodec MPEG2 encoder
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v

Sorry ... but as you can see there are no possible discution ...
Before this thread I thought that Libavcodec was the best MPEG1/2 encoder in the world.
After this thread I think always that Libavcodec is the best MPEG1/2 encoder in the world.
After this thread I think always that H264 is very better than all MPEG1/2 encoder in the world.

PS: Setting for Libavcodec:
- GOP PAL compliant 15 frames max
- 2 Bframes - No adaptative with low ratio
- 128 for Max MV range
- VBV compliant with DVD format
- 20 Mbps for Max Bitrate
- Highest possible ME search and RDO search
- Masking HVS optimisation
- Multipasse Encoding
- Sagittaire Custom Matrix

[digigami]

Originally Posted by Sagittaire

And finally (for me) here little comparison
and my best possible encoding at 3800 Kbps for libavcodec MPEG2 encoder http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v

Sounds great. Taking a look at it now.

First try with Nero ReCode:
12:09:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\gen\LOCALS~1\Temp\\ice_age_2-tlrD_1080pa02716.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2 Compare\Nero Recode II\burning\burn_ndigital.cpp, line:1884, error:Unspecified error (0x80004005)
12:09:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit

[digigami]

Originally Posted by Sagittaire

And my best possible encoding at 3800 Kbps for libavcodec MPEG2 encoder
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v

Very nice Sagittaire. You have demonstrated, beyond a doubt, that MPEG-2 VBR has unlimited potential for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

X-mas today, I got 3 gifts for myself. 1) H.264 spec from ITU webstore. 2) NeroDigital (still waiting for license key) and 3) confirmation that VBR MPEG-2 is great for HD.

Thank you all!

PS.
svn co
./configure
make

x264 build succeeded.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by Sagittaire

Best possible encoding at 3800 Kbps for libavcodec MPEG2 encoder
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v

Now, I wait for someone to beat Sagittaire MPEG-2 VBR at 3800 with H.264 AVC - and no blocking artifacts.

Only small blocking in Sagittaire. Fade in to 20th Century Fox logo - difficult to see. His encode is almost perfect constant Q at 6, very high quality. Superbit DVD is 1-3 with very low Q-matrix. So at 3.8 mbits/s MPEG-2 VBR is very, very good for 1280x720x25p. At 10 mbits/s I think perfect quality is possible. Less than 1/3 of HD-DVD bitrate and 1/12 of Blu-Ray. MPEG-2 c'est bon, n'est pas?

Sagittaire - c'est champion. Avec custom matrix. C'est bon. J'attend pour H.264 at 3.8 mbits/s.

[Sagittaire]

Now, I wait for someone to beat Sagittaire MPEG-2 VBR at 3800 with H.264 AVC - and no blocking artifacts.

But there are blocking artifacts on this MPEG2 encode (because average quant 6). You are really incredible ...

If I say H264 is better it's because I was already test the best MPEG2 encoder (IMO libavcodec) and the best H264 encoder (IMO Ateme HP).

The ratio quality is variable (source and level quality) but there are certainely something like 2.0 for ratio for this source at this quality level.

[IgorC]

Actually I agree with Sagitarrie. Libavcodec (enable in mecnoder) MPEG-2 provides best possbile for MPEG-2 quality. But it's still worse than H.264 High Profile.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by IgorC

I'm really happy now

Pour IgorC - la question d'accuracy de 'matices de quant'. Excuse-moi, mon francais est terrible.
-----
For IgorC - why I asked you questions about your system trying to determine the accuracy of the IDCT used by VLC.

This clip is from Sagittaire - Harry Potter trailer ripped from DVD, showing 4 different IDCT implementations (made png with Photoshop):
MPEG-2 decoder IDCT accuracy comparison.
Notice AAN is very famous IDCT implementation, but compared to ChenSmith97, not so good for MPEG decoding. What IDCT does x264 use?

Windows Media Player is especially poor IDCT performance. VideoLAN is good. Hardware is?.... hardware dependent.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by IgorC

Actually I agree with Sagitarrie. Libavcodec (enable in mecnoder) MPEG-2 provides best possbile for MPEG-2 quality. But it's still worse than H.264 High Profile.

Yes, but a viable choice for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray which allow for 27 mbits/s MPEG-2 and 54 mbits/s MPEG-2 respectively.

J'attend pour H.264 AVC Ateme a 3.8 mbits/s.
----
I wait for a H.264 AVC Ateme at 3.8 mbits/s. Better yet, do one at 3.8 and one at 6 mbits/s.

[digigami]

Originally Posted by IgorC

Actually I agree with Sagitarrie. Libavcodec (enable in mecnoder) MPEG-2 provides best possbile for MPEG-2 quality. But it's still worse than H.264 High Profile.

Mais, MPEG-1 avez Q-2 stepsize seulement. Je pense que digigami avez une autre chance.

------
But, MPEG-1 has Q2 stepsize (in quantizer) only. I think that digigami has another chance. We have feature classification like libavcodec, but not I-frame injection (cut scene detection).

http://www.digigami.com/megapeg/blog...6_archive.html